Queston 24 on study quide.

Forums Football Queston 24 on study quide.

This topic contains 5 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  official333 11 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #2557

    David Nagy
    Participant

    A discussion has started in our association concerning the momentum rule aspect for this play. I think the momentum rule does not take effect since the ball was recovered by someone other then the player who carried the ball into the end zone, which makes it a safety. Others think the rule still applies since the same team recovered the ball. Would like a clarification on this question and rule.

    #2558

    official333
    Participant

    My understanding with explanation and how I would answer the question is below.
    Rule 8-5-2a Exception is as follows:

    ART. 2 . . . It is a safety when:

    a. A runner carries the ball from the field of play to or across his own goal line, and it becomes dead there in his team’s possession.

    EXCEPTION: When a defensive player intercepts an opponent’s forward pass; intercepts or recovers an opponent’s fumble or backward pass; or an R player catches or recovers a scrimmage kick or free kick between his 5-yard line and the goal line, and his original momentum carries him into the end zone where the ball is declared dead in his team’s possession or it goes out of bounds in the end zone, the ball belongs to the team in possession at the spot where the pass or fumble was intercepted or recovered or the kick was caught or recovered

    The exception states defensive PLAYER intercepts AND ball declared dead in his TEAM’s possession. That is what happens in the test question #24. The exception does not state that the ball has to be in possession by the player that fumbled the ball, hence the use of TEAM’s possession.

    Rule 7-4-3c states that that fumbled ball belongs to team that fumbled ball if there is joint possession.

    Thus by these two rules, the momentum exception applies and team B gets the ball at its own 3 yard line [choice D]

    #2559

    David Nagy
    Participant

    Let’s carry this a little further. If the player who carried the ball into the end zone by his momentum fumbles and his teammate picks up the ball and starts running and is hit and fumbles in the end zone and this fumble is recovered by the same team or in joint possession, would it still be part of the momentum play and ball placed on yardline it was first possessed?

    #2560

    David Nagy
    Participant

    Looking at case book situation 8.5.2A, Ruling: Since the momentum of R1 carried him into his own end zone, if the ball becomes dead in his possession in the end zone, it will be R’s ball at the spot of the catch. This slso would be true if the ball went out of bounds behind the goal line after R1’s momentum carried him there and HE was last in possess of the ball.
    It doesn’t say after he or his teammate had last to have possession. This makes me believe it would be a Safety.

    #2561

    official333
    Participant

    “Let’s carry this a little further. If the player who carried the ball into the end zone by his momentum fumbles and his teammate picks up the ball and starts running and is hit and fumbles in the end zone and this fumble is recovered by the same team or in joint possession, would it still be part of the momentum play and ball placed on yardline it was first possessed?”

    This is interesting situation. What would you call on this play? Safety, touchback, or momentum?

    To me, momentum would still apply based upon the TEAM possession as stated in the rulebook 8-2-5a exception. As I was taught (and I could be wrong), the question to ask is:

    HOW did the ball go from the field of play across the goal line, i.e., who is responsible? In the test question and this particular play noted above, the ball went across the goal line by the momentum exception. That exception is to protect that team from giving up a safety. On the other side, it also protects the “fumbling team” by not calling this a touchback.

    The casebook does not address these type of plays. Not one example of their plethora of situations involves a fumble and recovery by a teammate. As you state correctly, the casebook does state for Situation 8.5.2A, HE is last to have possession.

    This sounds like something to address with your association’s rules interpreter and if need be (which in my opinion, it needs to be), let him (or her) address with the state office for clarification from NFHS.

    #2562

    official333
    Participant

    Look at Casebook 8.5.3 Situation C.

    A player who intercepts a forward pass in the end zone then loses possession by throwing a backward pass. The explanation contains “the force which put the ball into the end zone”. In this casebook situation, it is the forward pass. Similarly, I believe that in the study guide question #24, the force that put the ball into the end zone is the momentum exception.

    This is the closest situation I could find in the casebook – every other play [rule 2 definitions, rule 10 penalty enforcement] all contain the player that intercepts/recovers also is the same player that is downed in the end zone. With all these plays, it would be great if the NFHS had one play somewhere where another player gains possession by the team that fumbled the ball in the end zone [plays that result in touchdown don’t count in my opinion because possession of live ball in opponent’s end zone is always a touchdown, no matter how the ball got into the end zone.]

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  official333.
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